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Post by basementrocker on Apr 19, 2010 16:33:26 GMT -5
like i had metioned in another post,i am looking for an acoustic. just curious about intonation? if i buy one and take it home and discover the intonation is not right what do i do then? not like i can adjust it with a screwdriver. on electrics they always need adjustment, don't understand how to adjust an acoustic.Guess i have to check it and make sure it's right on before i buy it?
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urs
New Member
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Post by urs on Apr 19, 2010 18:00:13 GMT -5
make sure it's right on before i buy it? basically, yes.  From my limited knowledge I'd assume that if you have to adjust stuff after purchase, uhh. Not good. However, things that can be done (by you) to improve action, if necessary: Exchange (and/or to a certain degree lower/raise) the saddle as well as adjust the neck tension. |
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Post by pwfirst on Apr 19, 2010 21:10:03 GMT -5
Intonation is not quite as important in acoustics since we normally don't play that high up the neck.
But some small intonation problems can be adjusted at the nut. When I buy an acoustic I always take my tuner with me and check it at the 12 fret and see how close it is.
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Post by WhiskeyHotel on Apr 19, 2010 21:37:38 GMT -5
Ditto PW. Those with tuners built in make this easy.
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Post by Happy Jack on Apr 20, 2010 2:29:37 GMT -5
Most acoustics offer less scope for easier adjustment.
You can fit an intonated bridge saddle
Action can be adjusted by either shaving the saddle or putting in a lower saddle. This can make a huge difference on playability
I have an very cheap Yamaha F310 - after a set of Martin Superlites and a set up, lowered bridge saddle it bears no relation to the piece of Sh1t it was when I bought it!
Truss rod adjustment is like an electric
None of the adjustments are quite as simple as on an electric.
As Phil says acoustics don't tend to be played as high up the neck
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Post by lilbiker on Jun 8, 2010 14:04:45 GMT -5
Most acoustics offer less scope for easier adjustment. You can fit an intonated bridge saddle Action can be adjusted by either shaving the saddle or putting in a lower saddle. This can make a huge difference on playability I have an very cheap Yamaha F310 - after a set of Martin Superlites and a set up, lowered bridge saddle it bears no relation to the piece of Sh1t it was when I bought it! Truss rod adjustment is like an electric None of the adjustments are quite as simple as on an electric. As Phil says acoustics don't tend to be played as high up the neck I understand that completely. I bought a very inexpensive Epiphone dreadnought and the action was horrible and the strings were crap. I removed the pickguard, which was ugly, got rid of the strings, lowered the action at the saddle and it was an instant improvement and now I like the guitar for a kick around and great to take to the beach. But intonation takes nut work and I am not going there, so maybe in a few weeks or months once it breaks in a little I will take it to my local Luthier to have the intonation checked. |
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Post by melodeous on Jul 3, 2010 21:18:02 GMT -5
Intonation is not adjustable at the nut. It requires reshaping of the saddle or replacing the saddle with one that has been intonated for the guitar. Bob Colossi www.guitarsaddles.com/ can be contacted for an intonated saddle. You can do that yourself if you're handy. It's a pretty simple procedure but takes time and the desire to get it right. Action can be adjusted at both the nut and saddle by deepening the nut slots to help ease fretting in the first position, and shaving the bottom of the saddle for lowering over the length of the F/B. Electric guitar players who have little experience with acoustics typically call acoustic guitar string action (height over the fretboard) crap, ridiculous, poor, etc. Fact is, this is factory set to give the guitar its best sound. Higher action allows the strings to impart a greater frequency response from the top of the guitar, or soundboard as it's alternately called, and it's at it's best with the factory adjusted height. Lowering that action to near-electric guitar action loses much of that frequency response and the guitar will sound weaker, or "thin" by comparison. Of course, if played plugged all the time this is of no consequence and lowering the action doesn't matter. The Epiphone is one example of "horrible" action set at the factory for optimal frequency response. To an acoustic guitarist, electric guitar string height/action is "horrible action" for that reason. Electric guitarists who are schooled in both can attest to this and know they have to work much harder on an acoustic when played unplugged. |
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Post by 469roadking on Jul 3, 2010 23:18:29 GMT -5
Welcome Melodeous!! Glad to have you around. Good post too. I play a little acoustic when called upon and I do find it more difficult to get consistently good clean intonated lines. It makes you work harder that's for sure. I did all the acoustic work on my band's first CD. Mostly just chordal stuff. None of the Tommy Emanuel type virtuoso stuff. The guys wanted me to but I told them I didn't want to show off and create a new acoustic sensation and have to deal with all the fame and fortune and stuff. That and I can't do it. ;D
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Post by pwfirst on Jul 3, 2010 23:35:33 GMT -5
The luthier who does all of my guitars put a new nut in my Yamaha acoustic to help with the Intonation on my G string, It was noticeable on some of the higher barr chords. He did this by adjusting the contact point where the strings rest on the nut. While this doesn't give you as much adjustment as one the saddle it can correct some of the problems. Changing saddles can really change the sound of your guitar for the better and for the worse so be careful working on them on acoustic guitars.
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Post by melodeous on Jul 4, 2010 10:18:34 GMT -5
The luthier who does all of my guitars put a new nut in my Yamaha acoustic to help with the Intonation on my G string, It was noticeable on some of the higher barr chords. He did this by adjusting the contact point where the strings rest on the nut. While this doesn't give you as much adjustment as one the saddle it can correct some of the problems. Changing saddles can really change the sound of your guitar for the better and for the worse so be careful working on them on acoustic guitars. That's the first I've ever heard anyone adjusting intonation in that manner. Intonation is typically done at the saddle, as we've spoken of here. The nut is always cut with the slots slightly ramped (angled) down with the lowest depth on the tuning head side. This leaves the slots with their highest string contact points right where they exit the nut at the first fret, and this is also the point luthiers use to measure string scale length when establishing where the bridge will be attached - specifically where the saddle will be under the strings - and then they compensate (shape) the saddle to each strings 12th fret fretted note and sounded harmonic frequencies. They have to match. This is also known as each string's (adjusted) scale length. That's why you see saddles that have jogs from one string to the next where they make contact. I keep my action low - just above the fretting out (buzz) point - and I use .013-.056 strings. This combination gives me ease of play and with the heavier gauge strings I don't lose as much frequency response due to lowered action. I buy guitars that can handle the higher gauge strings. Some lightly built guitars will not hold their shape very long with heavier gauges constantly in use. Then I install electronics to suit the sound I want and end up with a guitar that loses nothing plugged or unplugged. Of course, I wasted a lot of money experimenting but it was still fun learning. |
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Post by melodeous on Jul 4, 2010 10:37:58 GMT -5
Welcome Melodeous!! Glad to have you around. Good post too. I play a little acoustic when called upon and I do find it more difficult to get consistently good clean intonated lines. It makes you work harder that's for sure. I did all the acoustic work on my band's first CD. Mostly just chordal stuff. None of the Tommy Emanuel type virtuoso stuff. T he guys wanted me to but I told them I didn't want to show off and create a new acoustic sensation and have to deal with all the fame and fortune and stuff. That and I can't do it. ;D[/quote] Thanks for the welcome. What...TE not your style? Seriously, that guy is scary. I would like to see what he'd do in an all electric band. I think his name would sky rocket. That's not his style but I'm just sayin'. |
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Post by 469roadking on Jul 4, 2010 11:15:56 GMT -5
Yep, TE is one of those OMG freak of nature players that make me stare, mouth agape and drool. I've never thought about what he could do on electric but then again until right now I never thought about and acoustic guitar in Jeff Beck's hands. Thou makest me ponder brother.
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Post by pwfirst on Jul 4, 2010 21:34:14 GMT -5
Had to stop using big strings a while ago my fingers just can't take it any more. Tone is everything with acoustic and the size and type of strings are a very individual taste. As I get older I enjoy a little brighter mid tones and I use different strings for each of my acoustic guitars. Back in the 70 they made a set called Silk and Silver very soft feeling string with a bright tone that I used on my olg Epi 12 string. They really brought out the tones on that Old 000 sized body guitar.
The guy I have been using for years to do my guitars is a trained luthier and the best jazz guitarist I have ever heard. He has a Master Degree in music and does magic to all stringed installments. I use to use guitar teck's Until I tried this guy out, twice the money but when you are addicted to guitars well worth it. I send my wife's Martin to the other guy ;D
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Post by 469roadking on Jul 4, 2010 23:43:02 GMT -5
LOL.....
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From my limited knowledge I'd assume that if you have to adjust stuff after purchase, uhh. Not good. However, things that can be done (by you) to improve action, if necessary: Exchange (and/or to a certain degree lower/raise) the saddle as well as adjust the neck tension. 
